I try to keep my FB to people who know me, my back ground and even like me for my character, strength and opinions preferably. . .even if not all of them. My friends generally appreciate a good debate, as it's an education to both parties. My friends generally can be taught, and love the flow of information. That said, sometimes I have a friend from a few local groups I go to as a ministry. These friends often don't know what I think about religion, but respect my knowledge of other things and think I'm wise, so friends me. Little do they know that I'm "the internet cop", and will freely correct the judgmental and wrong things they post. Out of respect my friends who know me will classically keep quiet and listen, while their friends and family rip me to shreds. So, let me give you an example of the intelligence and rational responses an Atheist like me can expect from your typical Duck Dynasty defending sort of Christian. Quote:
" I think any person who is dumb enough to not even beleive in JESUS . . .is simply a lost soul that I pitty."
"[Debating is] Not worth my time I only reference king james version if its something that is of importance." (Anyone who has studied the King James, or it's history will know that it is a dead argument, and only used by the most closeminded individuals, as it has been debunked for a long time with new archaeological evidence.)
(His wife, my friend) . "He's busy at work and doesn't have time to debate. " (Excuse for why he has no answers, even while commenting.)
"And some things you can't have the answers to and I think that's why you struggle with understanding us Christians. There's some things your just not supposed to know or undrstand, which is a hard pill for scientific minded people like yourself to swallow."
(I don't understand Christians? I was one for most of my life! There may be some things we cannot know, but I am fine with those things being unanswered. . .religion is hardly one of them, we have solid answers now, as I have blogged on.)
(Husband) "If u need answers and facts then pick up a king james bible and start reaeading and if that does answer all of your questions and doubt then read it again and if it still doesnt then it may be u just dont want to understand it. " ". . .I will not debate this any further. This does not make me a coward how ever it does make me feel saddened to know there is another lost soul."
(Another reference to how all he reads is the KJV and as he will not approve of or read any of my other sources I referenced, like stats from Pew forum or Wikipedia, it was seeming pointless to debate him. Although I used the KJV against him too. . .)
"Folks like you and google is whats wrong with this world today, believing everything u read on the internet is of no educational value! Which its very obvious your education was found threw internet search engines!"
(So I gave him some more stats on the educational value of the internet education, and how Atheists score higher on tests of intelligence and Bible knowledge then religious folks.)
"Once again believe everything u see or read on the internet. That explains your true lack of intelligence and the absense of a true and real loving God in your sorry and pitiful life. I hope some day you will be educated with facts and truth instead of theories."
(If you cannot see a pattern here, let me enlighten you as to the classic type who debates Atheists online these days. . .uneducated, nasty, pig headed Christians.)
(So he finally goes to a source on the internet -shock of all shocks-and tries to fight fire with fire, looking up a word I challenged him to be.) "Skeptic- a person who maintains a doubting attitude as towards plans, values, statements, or the charecter of others! Sounds like a very negetive and judgmental person to me."
(So for one, he hasn't learned how to copy and paste apparently, or spell check, as he couldn't even spell on his quote! Two, he sees no value in questioning himself or others.)
The Mother: "Who are you madam to write such unintelligent, hypocritical hogwash. . .Back off cause u want an intelligent biblical battle I can help u learn a thing or two. What a half witted individual and u say u have morals....alrighty then."
Hypocritical and immoral must be a particularly sore subject and be brought up a lot to this woman, as it was totally inappropriate here. And what's worse, after her brag of being ready to debate, all she did was fling insults, and never gave a single bit of info.)
Sadly, this is one thing that made me go towards Atheism from the start, the moral, nice, intelligent and educated folks as a rule were not the Christians in any debate I saw online. This is one example of many abuses I have received for sharing stats and facts about our world with those who want to believe reality to be different then it is. Is it any wonder that Atheists have a high suicide rate for being the most hated and distrusted minority?
I don't understand why we are so hated and I think it's totally unfair. Atheists don't hate believers, we just disagree with them but we don't humiliate them. I've never had the courage to debate!
ReplyDeleteThe guest speaker at a recent LASH meeting was Justus Cade, an LU grad. He's now an Atheist but was formerly a fundamentalist Christian. His topic, "Inside the Mind of an Apologist", gave insights on how Christians really do feel concerned for our Atheist "souls" along with how they become so brain-washed. He wanted us to know that they are indeed nice people who truly believe we're all doomed. We learned a few tips on how to get a Christian's mind to sort of self destruct, in particular by asking them "why did God want babies killed" (from 1 Samuel 15:3) They have great difficulty with this question and usually respond by bouncing around with heavy criticisms of the questioner! We had a fair amount of conversation on how atheists often lose their friends and sometimes family once they share their disbelief of god. Anyway, it was interesting to hear so much from a former Christian...and I thought of you.
I totally agree! Christians do care, if they are consistent and good ones at least. I feel so bad not constantly trying to educate those Christians, because I know that everyday they live in their belief system they are miserably mourning my soul. Your speaker did sound like me, and with the same background. Actually, LU was rather liberal for my past circles. The questions you ask a Christian about the Bible will often fall flat sadly because they are not looking for truth, or to have evidence shown. They first have to believe it is ok for them to be educated (study to show themselves approved unto God) and to be individually led of the Holy Spirit (who will "lead them into all truth"). Then, you need to show them how neither of us put stock in mainstream Christianity, as they are simply the desperate, uneducated and immoral fakers. That way we can agree on something and they understand that you did not just "stumble" and loose your faith because of those "fakers". Then show the similarities between the very religious crowd, and the Atheists, and make them want to fit into the moral and intelligent crowd. From there you only need to give credit to the parts of their religion based in truth, and show that some truth doesn't justify it as all truth. Many will stumble here, because to admit that means they have to be the judge of what is true and what is not in the Bible, thus they would have to be admitting to being "there own God" in their own mind. Before admitting to this, they will generally turn on their debator and claim that they are doing this, or rejecting God. This terminology only comes up because they are feeling guilty about being their own God, and thus feeling rejected by you. Why get so defensive for their God being not believed in if it isn't just a reflection of themselves? The desperation to discredit the questioner is sometimes downright funny! I was called immoral, stupid and numerous other things, not because they knew me, or because I divulged personal information, or conducted myself rudely or swore, had bad grammar, etc. it was simply because that was their defensive come back. In the end, the conversation is always closed by them, and rarely is it agreeing to agree to disagree. When ALL the evidence is on one side, and the Christian is cornered, they only have three choices: to consider what you say, put their fingers in their ears, or to turn on you. The reaction is predictable and dependent on the listeners intelligence. There is no use debating rednecks, or creationists/evangelists. Science minded and bright Christian folks are pretty easy to spot, and worthy of debating kindly. My FB is full of them still, and they are some of my best friends.
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